Ruthie Rogers on Ruscha, Podcasting, and The River Cafe

It was 1987, way before Cool Britannia, but there was still a feeling of energy in London. Charles Saatchi had his beautiful Boundary Road gallery, and the first of the Young British Artists (YBAs)—Liam Gillick, Fiona Rae, and Sarah Lucas—were fresh out of Goldsmiths.

Chef Ruthie Rogers and her late husband, the architect Richard Rogers, returned to the capital after their stint in Paris while his now revered Pompidou Centre was under construction.

Richard's architectural practice had opened on the bank of the Thames in residential Hammersmith, and he was now on the hunt for a creative space where people could exchange ideas over lunch. Ruthie alongside chef Rose Gray found a solution in the form of a small riverside space and The River Cafe was born.

Under their helm, the iconic Italian restaurant has become a revolving door for artists, architects, activists, and politicians—a home-from-home for many over the last thirty-odd years.

And now, with Ruthie's Table 4, Rogers' podcast where guests chat about food, family suppers, first dates, and the rest, her supporters have their turn in the hot seat. Guests have included artist Ed Ruscha who shares his coveted cactus omelette recipe, YBA Tracey Emin explains her eight-apple-a-day habit, and comedian Pete Davidson muses on life as a waiter on Staten Island.

Over a pot of tea and a cavolo nero, pine nut, and pecorino pasta, Rogers sits down with Ocula Advisory to discuss The River Cafe's early days, her favourite artworks at home, and the night Tina Turner lay across the London institution's infamous bar.

The River Cafe has just celebrated its 36th birthday. What was it like in the early days?

Richard always said that the only thing worse than not having a place to eat would be to have a mediocre one. While in Paris, I discovered the French way of cooking—going to the market, having totally seasonal food, and eating out all the time during the building process.

We wanted to create a place where people could exchange ideas and meet, rather than just an office and knew that a restaurant, café, or canteen would be the focal point.

Rose was back in London after her stint at Nell's club in New York, and we both wanted to cook. We found this little space on the riverbank in Hammersmith, got six tables and cookers from the reject shop, and started The River Cafe in a very tiny way.

When did it really catch on?

People just started to hear of it. I remember the restaurant critic Fay Maschler wrote a review of it in the Evening Standard which helped, and soon after that the word spread. We published our first cookbook, The River Cafe Cookbook in 1994, which allowed us to expand into a bigger space. We invested in it, got a wood oven, and made it a proper restaurant.

The restaurant was designed by your late husband, Richard Rogers. What did his aesthetic bring to the restaurant?

I was very young when I met Richard, and I grew up with him. In 1983, four years before The River Cafe, we bought two houses in Chelsea and turned them into one. Through that experience, we both knew that we wanted light, a view, and an open kitchen.

When it came to designing The River Cafe, we had the same idea to have a space where everybody could see each other, and look out into the garden when the sun would shine.

At home, you have an incredible collection of contemporary art. What are some of your favourite works?

We mostly have two artists in our collection—Cy Twombly and Philip Guston.

Philip was a great, great friend of my family and we grew up with him in Woodstock, New York. My father owned a couple of his artworks that we have in our collection now. Then in 1998, Richard and I bought a very large painting from McKee Gallery, New York. I feel a deep affinity with Guston when standing in front of his paintings.

There's also a painting that Philip gave to my mother. A very small painting of a book, which he inscribed with 'Dear Sylvia. Happy Birthday'. That makes me very happy.

We bought a few Twombly works on paper before we got to know him. One of the last Twombly's we bought was called Weeping Chrysanthemums. The late Swiss art dealer Doris Ammann sent it over for us to view in London. Our son, Bo, had died at 27 about six months before. We just sat there looking at the painting and knew that we could never let it go. While it was a sad time, the painting encapsulates the happy memories that we shared.

We also have a set of Andy Warhol Mao prints, which my father gave us—one when we got married and then we managed to get a set. So we're very lucky.

Have you had a chance to see the Philip Guston retrospective at Tate Modern (5 October 2023–25 February 2024)?

Yes, it blew me away as it shows the early works. I thought I knew quite a lot about Guston, but I didn't know he was a muralist. I loved learning about his time in Mexico, and how, with the help of Diego Rivera, he was commissioned to paint The Struggle Against Terrorism (1934–1935), a massive fresco in Morelia outside Mexico City.

In your River Cafe 30 (2017) cookbook, menus have been illustrated by artists such as Peter Doig and Ed Ruscha. How did this start?

Ellsworth Kelly came here one day and drew a self-portrait in the bathroom on the back of a menu and then scrawled a still life on another.

Later on, Twombly visited and scribbled 'I love lunch with Ruthie' across a menu, which was lovely. So we started with Twombly and Kelly, which prompted us to ask Damien [Hirst] who has a studio around the corner. Jonas Wood, Ed Ruscha, and Brice Marden followed. We have a beautiful Marden in the book next to the black squid risotto.

You seem so at ease speaking to artists and filmmakers on your podcast, Ruthie's Table 4. Do you feel a close affinity with them?

I love artists, writers, filmmakers, actors—you name it. Creative people are so interesting to talk to about the way they work, when they eat, their feelings before they go on stage and after. Do they forget about food? Are they hungry all the time?

For a chef, we see our pastry, cake, or pasta, as a work of art. However, as opposed to the painting that stays around for generations, our art is eaten, never to be seen again.

It's nice that a lot of creative people really love to eat. It's important to them.

What prompted you to start the podcast?

People who come here always have a story, whether they're promoting a film, opening a gallery show, or acting in a play. I always had this idea to set up River Cafe Radio as a way to stop that person on their way to dinner and say, come into this room and let's talk about what you're doing.

In lockdown, I was thinking of ways to keep in touch with our clientele. My initial idea was to have people read a recipe every day. It was then suggested I do a podcast. However, I had no idea how to interview people—I felt I was thrown into a swimming pool, but couldn't swim.

Kirsty Young gave great advice, which was to ask one question to everybody. I'm always asked what my last meal would be, which I hate as it's so depressing. Instead, I came up with 'what is your comfort food?' It's a nice question because very often people open up.

They'll talk about something their mother made before she died, or perhaps a recipe that a grandmother brought over from Ghana. For Austin Butler, who played Elvis, it was a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

What's yours?

It would have to be pasta with tomato sauce.

Has there been a particular evening, or service, that will be remembered for another 36?

There are so many quirky stories of people coming here, having parties and not wanting to leave. We did have one night where Tina Turner climbed up and laid down across the bar. That was quite a late night.